Fair Abortion Discussions

2006-08-08 [Fizban]: And sine and I agree with you on that point. That it is the mothers choice, and because there are definetly times where abortions shouldnt be denied (like we were saying, when there may be damage to the baby or the mother that could be horribly detrimental or causing of death,...or if the woman was raped, I personally would say keep the baby, but I would fully understnad if you didn't want to have a child you couldnt love becuase thinking about them, only made you think of the horrible person who inflicted the child upon you)

Neither Sine or I are arguing that abortions should be made illegal, for we both understand that there needs to be a choice and others morals shouldn't be dictating the actions of those people without those morals.

However...we are both trying to arguing the immorality of abortion, and expression our mutual sentiment...

that when its not some mother who can't bear to have a child, or a mother that cant handle it...

when its a mother that simply had sex without being prepared that she could become pregnant...
ran the risk of pregnancy, and doesnt want to face the fact that now she created..CREATED life...that should would then be responsible for.

She terminates the life becuase she doesn't want to deal with it. Because it's too much of a bother. Because she would let it ruin her life...because she is selfish and careless, and doesn't want to take responsibility.

It's the same as a guy walking away from his pregnant girlfriend...It's selfish and self centered.

Yet no one would ever argue that the guy is right...no one would ever argue that he shouldn't be forced to stay and watch after his child and his girlfriend at least a little.

he is walking away from the baby...

she is walking away from the baby...

everyone would call the guy a horrible person because he was dicking around and wasnt ready to face the consequences of if he got some girl pregnant...

Killing the baby, or abandoning the baby, they are both irresponsible and horrible in my eyes...I am not longer speaking for sine here, if you noticed he hadn't said any of this stuff.

However, I digress back to the original point I was making.

Both of us understand the need,...but are still going to argue the morality...

like the point on when they get there rights...everyone is a lump of tissue, we are being choosey about which lumps get what rights when...I dont feel thats fair.

2006-08-08 [tuff ghost]: I think that the arguement about taking the chance for pregnancy when you have sex is rather biased. Really, it only promotes male promiscuity.

2006-08-08 [Dil*]: Then there is no arguement, I don't see the point in argueing over personal values or morality. If you are for the choice, then in my eyes, you are pro-choice.

2006-08-09 [ceridwen]: ... Geh... we're all just too moderate about this. >.> <.< I don't think I've ever had to say that before.

2006-08-09 [Fizban]: lol, see we arent arguing the final descision here dil, I am arguing the details in general. lol

2006-08-09 [Dil*]: I just can't summon the willpower to care...sorry.

2006-08-09 [Fizban]: LOL!!! hahaha, you don't have the willpower to care about the little lump of tissue huh?

Well, I don't have the willpower to force myself not to care about little lumps of tissue...or big, or medium sized ones.

2006-08-10 [Dil*]: I only have qualms about forced morality in this sense.

2006-08-10 [Fizban]: ooh...well, then I suppose I, and so far neither will Sine be arguing with you on the matter.

Forced morality, is indeed wrong.

2006-08-10 [Dil*]: Watch it, if you say all forced morality is wrong, you can't condemn a murderer.

You are forcing him to own up to what he did. He obviously thought it was okay of him to murder in the first place.

2006-08-10 [Fizban]: ofcourse, I am well aware and have debated the same topic to myself many times.

However, forced morality comes in degrees...

its the reason why gay marriage isnt allowed...
if you can consensus and agreement that the majority doesnt agree with killing you can create the law forcing a moral judgement on all citizens and thus, enforce it.

If the majority of people dont beleive upon another moral subject,...because obviously we can and will, enforce morals, then it will be protected that you have to follow such things.

But there is a large difference between gay marriage and murder...

however that too is an opinoun.

2006-08-10 [Dil*]: if you agree that morality is mere opinion, then you have no qualms about christians burning atheists back in the middle ages.

2006-08-10 [Fizban]: no...

I did not say that.

However the belief that Atheists should die, is a moral issue that some may hold...and an opinoun in general.

If there are enough people to agree on that, and legally make it okay to burn atheists thats how this country works.

Did I say that there was never any a problem with that?

Obviously not, or I wouldn't be pro-gay marriage, because that indicates that I am not okay with the current laws banning it. However I am okay for this country to create them.

I don't have qualms with the system, only those within it.

2006-08-11 [ceridwen]: ...geh.. Dil, you have bit of a flaw on your forced morality thing. Not every murder things what he did wasn't wrong. You can do something if you think it isn't morally correct. That's why people have this feeling called guilt.

Yeah... Just thought I'd point that out.

2006-08-11 [Dil*]: That's not quite a flaw. My example involved a murderer thinking it was okay to kill someone, and we would be punishing him because we think it's wrong to murder someone for any reason.

When a whole set of people share the same moral opinion, it doesn't make it correct either. But we see things like male superiority and shit like that. They "Think" it's morally correct, but is it?

Or is morality just a mere opinion as you put it previously.

2006-08-11 [Fizban]: everything is an opinion.

Morality being an opinoun is an opinion.

and opinoun being mere is an opinion.

my opinion that everything is an opinion is an opinion. Ect...

2006-08-12 [ceridwen]: Geh... Nothing is absolute. And I hate that. Or maybe there really is an absolute truth out there; we just haven't found it yet.

Heh... Morality is completely relative. I contradict myself when I say that, but I'm Ok with that. For example, I think child molestation is horrible and that any sort of pedophile bastard should die a painful death. But relative morality says that to that sick bastard what he's doing could be just dandy. 'Who am I to tell him he's wrong?' ... But I reject that because it sickens me. So... I'm a contradiction. And I'm all right with that. (I hope that made sense. xP)

2006-08-12 [tuff ghost]: An opinoun? <.<

2006-08-12 [Fizban]: "An opinoun? <.<" <_< 

2006-08-12 [Dil*]: No, I'll explain it in strong atheism. Moral relativism is flawed.

2006-08-13 [Jewl]: Opinion? or Opinoun?